The recent controversy over who is lying about what Nancy Pelosi knew about waterboarding and when did she know it leaves 
me a little cold.But it did make me wonder why everytime I saw Ms. Pelosi smile I was reminded of something else.
Don't know who to believe, Ms. Pelosi or Mr. Panetta, both because she is a current representative and Panetta is a former representative it makes it hard to believe than a member of congress would ever lie.
Do you know how to tell if a member of congress is lying? They are lying if you notice that they are breathing.
And then there's this conversation between Alice and the Cheshire Cat in Alice In Wonderland that is a pretty good description of Congress:
"`Cheshire Puss,' [Alice] began, rather timidly, as she did not at all know whether it would like the name: however, it only grinned a little wider.
`Come, it's pleased so far,' thought Alice, and she went on. `Would you tell me, please, which way I ought to go from here?'
`That depends a good deal on where you want to get to,' said the Cat.
`I don't much care where--' said Alice.
`Then it doesn't matter which way you go,' said the Cat.
`--so long as I get SOMEWHERE,' Alice added as an explanation.
`Oh, you're sure to do that,' said the Cat, `if you only walk long enough.'"
"`But I don't want to go among mad people,' Alice remarked.
`Oh, you can't help that,' said the Cat: `we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.'
`How do you know I'm mad?' said Alice.
`You must be,' said the Cat, `or you wouldn't have come here.'
Alice didn't think that proved it at all; however, she went on `And how do you know that you're mad?'
`To begin with,' said the Cat, `a dog's not mad. You grant that?'
`I suppose so,' said Alice.
`Well, then,' the Cat went on, `you see, a dog growls when it's angry, and wags its tail when it's pleased. Now I growl when I'm pleased, and wag my tail when I'm angry. Therefore I'm mad.'"
9 comments:
This is a giant red herring. Did Pelosi lie about what she knew and when she knew it? Maybe she did. But the "enhanced interrogation" was under way. Does anybody trust the CIA when it says it kept notes on the supposed briefing but, gosh, nobody can see them so we'll just have to trust the CIA? Yeah, right.
What we do know is that on George Bush's watch and with Cheney and Rummy calling the shots, prisoners were mistreated and even tortured in violation of U.S. and international law.
So Pelosi may be liar but the Bushie boys are war criminals.
Leon Panetta says Congress was briefed all along. So those who knew what was happening and signed off, or did nothing, are simply as involved as everybody else in a criminal act.
Frankly I trust the CIA way more than I trust Congress (either party).
I guess the question is which Democrat is telling the truth. Leon Panetta or Nancy Pelosi?
Maybe it's time to move on and actually try to end the war (which is what I thought President Obama said he was going to do).
He was going to close Gitmo as well, but those plans are 6-8 months in the future and who knows if he'll change his mind on that as he did on the torture photos.
As I have said many times, I am a born skeptic, one that trusts neither Republicans or Democrats. Anyone who is a journalist should keep a healthy cynicism and distance from any administration.
I get worried when I see journalists who accept, almost without questioning, anything our new President says or does. That is not healthy for our system.
Same for those who don't want to question Ms. Pelosi either.
She is pretty I guess. I dont judge books by thier cover!
Journalists also should be able to spot a cheap attempt to distract people from the real issue at hand, which is what the Republicans are doing right now. I don't think anybody who becomes speaker of the house gets there by being squeaky clean ... but that isn't the issue here.
The real issue is that the Bush administration -- through ginned-up "evidence," torture and a little old-fashioned maniuplation of the CIA -- took us into a unnecessary war that killed thousands of Americans and hundreds of thousands of Iraquis. In their zeal to bring "democracy" to the region (and riches for Cheney's Halliburton buds), they trampled the constitution and countless laws.
Pelosi's probably a crook of the highest order. But you know what? She could throw gunnysacks full of puppies in the lake and she still wouldn't be as evil as Cheney ... such a lover of Democracy that he outed Valerie Plame over a political dispute with her husband ... or as stupid and arrogant as Rumsfeld.
I really don't want to keep this going, it was meant to be in good humor - which is in little view with the new administration (except for gaffe a minute Joe) - but just to correct you and to be precise. It was Richard Armitage, who by all sides and as revealed in the Washington Post, was the source of the Plame leak.
Cheney did many things wrong, including shooting a friend in the face, but let's at least be accurate.
It should never be a matter of whether the side I agree with is getting its ox gored in the search for truth.
Nancy Pelosi, like nearly every speaker before - and since - is drunk with power and will lie and tear down an agency that the country sorely needs right now, if it serves her own political interests. She should take her personal Air Force jet home to California and simply apologize and get this over with. If she can't apologize she SHOULD hold hearings and name names of the CIA agents who lied to her.
Hopefully on that we can agree.
OK, I read the WP too, and yes, while Armitage backed into a confession that, gosh, he may have accidentally told Bob Novak that Plame worked for the CIA, it STILL doesn't explain how or why Cheney's boy Scooter Libby leaked essentially the same info to Judy Miller at the NY Times and then lied about his dealings with reporters under oath. Across town, Karl Rove was whispering the same stuff in Matt Cooper's ear. So I, like many others, remain skeptical that this didn't somehow begin in the veep's office.
(Novak has said Armitage's public account of how he came to tell Novak about Plame was wrong ... that Armitage didn't stumble into the revelation at all, rather he made a point of telling him it'd be good column fodder.)
Pelosi's waffling doesn't look good. I probably wouldn't vote for her if I lived in her district, since I have a problem with Botox-ed people in Armani suits who claim to advocate for the poor. But let's presume she is guilty of everything she's been accused of. That makes her a liar. She still looks like a girl scout compared to the enhanced interrogation boys. I guess everything's relative.
Let's not forget that while the CIA employs many law-biding, patriotic men and women, many of those people were pushed out during the Bush years. If you didn't subscribe to the WMD club, then there wans't a place for you. And now Panetta is already hedging that gee, maybe there aren't notes of these so-called briefings after all.
That means Pelosi. Could. Actually. Be. Telling. The. Truth.
I was in high school when Nixon resigned and as I got older, I realized Gerald Ford did the right thing in pardoning him to reunite the country. It was a very bold, courageous and unselfish decision, given that it cost him a return to the White House.
Part of me says that with everything else going on in the world, we need to move forward on this sad chapter. But every stop on ex-recluse Cheney's "I'm Not a Torturer" national tour intensifies my suspicion that there's even more we don't know .. that he doth protest too much. And I know I'm not the only one who feels this way.
I'll officially retire this topic now.
Actually, I like the discussions. And just to reaffirm. I am not a booster of the former administration.
I think the cat is smarter. Whats so bad about getting info from those who would cut Nancy's thoat is they had a chance? She needs to sit down and shutup! Or just go her millions of dollars.
Catpaws.
I'll avoid the political discussion since I'm reasonably ignorant in that arena and completely stunned these days by what I do seem to understand. I appreciate all the comments offered here.
Now about the Cheshire Cat, since I DO understand childrens books. What a great analogy. I often feel like Alice in Wonderland myself these days. When I watch the news I'm quite sure I've fallen down the rabbit hole.........
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